The censorship surrounding taiwan is super lame. You can’t even ask about stuff that happened 50+ years ago. Even if you ask about something else, if somehow the answer includes the world Taiwan, it deletes it.
Wait till you see how fascist US censorship works.
On the up side China has great prosperity because they dont let individuals hoard all the money and they dont allow unregulated free speech that turns countries like the US into INGSOC Oceania
It’s open source, although not 'cause it wants to be but 'cause it’s the best way to compete with mainstream non-chinese software internationally, you can easily remove any censorship included by default.
How?
Just run the LLM locally with open-webui and you can tweak the system prompt to ignore all the censorship
Is this something someone without a coding background can do easily?
You can actually just ask it, if you have it hosted locally
I asked 14b if Taiwan is a country
-----Thinking-----
Alright, so I need to figure out if Taiwan is considered a country. From what I know, Taiwan has its own government and operates independently in many ways, like having its own currency and military. But then again, not all countries recognize Taiwan as an independent nation. Some people think of it as part of China, which complicates things. There’s also the One-China policy that many nations follow, which says there’s only one China and Taiwan is part of it.
I wonder how international law views this situation. Does Taiwan have any official recognition from the United Nations or other major countries? It seems like most countries don’t officially recognize Taiwan as a separate country, but they might still maintain unofficial diplomatic relations. This makes me think that even though Taiwan acts like a country in many ways, it’s not universally recognized as one.
Also, I’m curious about the historical background. Why is there such a dispute over Taiwan’s status? It probably has to do with history and political interests of both China and other countries involved. Maybe there are economic or strategic reasons why some countries choose not to recognize Taiwan.
I should also consider what defines a country in international law. There are criteria like having a defined territory, a permanent population, a government, and the ability to engage in diplomatic relations with other states. Taiwan seems to meet most of these, but it’s still not fully recognized by many nations.
Another point is the difference between state and government recognition. Even if Taiwan isn’t officially recognized as a country by some states, does that mean it’s not a sovereign state? It gets confusing because sovereignty can be tricky to determine in cases where there’s international disagreement.
I also recall that some countries have diplomatic relations with Taiwan despite following the One-China policy, which means they acknowledge China’s stance but still maintain unofficial ties with Taiwan. This seems like a way for them to balance their relationships without directly opposing China’s position.
Overall, it looks like Taiwan’s status as a country is not straightforward. It has elements that suggest it should be recognized as an independent state, but there are strong political and international factors that complicate this recognition. To fully understand whether Taiwan is a country, I need to look into both its internal governance and the international agreements and policies that affect its recognition.
Maybe I should also think about how other similar cases are handled internationally. For example, places like Kosovo or Palestine have struggled with their international recognition despite having many attributes of sovereign states. This comparison could help me understand Taiwan’s situation better.
In summary, while Taiwan exhibits characteristics of a country in terms of governance and functionality, the lack of universal international recognition complicates its status as a recognized nation under international law.
-----Answer-----
Taiwan’s status as a country is a complex issue that involves both internal governance and international political dynamics. While Taiwan has many attributes of a sovereign state, including a defined territory, permanent population, government, and the ability to engage in diplomatic relations with other states, it is not universally recognized as an independent nation by the international community.
Key points to consider:
Internal Governance: Taiwan operates independently with its own government, currency, and military, behaving like many sovereign nations.
International Recognition: Most countries do not officially recognize Taiwan as a separate country due to the One-China policy, which asserts that Taiwan is part of China.
Diplomatic Relations: While many nations maintain unofficial diplomatic relations with Taiwan, they often do so while adhering to the One-China policy to avoid straining their relations with China.
International Law and Sovereignty: The criteria for state recognition under international law include having a defined territory, permanent population, government, and diplomatic capacity. Taiwan meets most of these criteria but faces challenges in full recognition due to political and strategic considerations.
Historical and Political Context: The dispute over Taiwan’s status is rooted in historical and political factors, including China’s claim over Taiwan and the interests of other nations involved.
Comparison with Other Cases: Similar situations, such as those involving Kosovo or Palestine, highlight how international recognition can be influenced by political and strategic considerations beyond mere governance attributes.
In conclusion, while Taiwan exhibits many characteristics of a sovereign state, its status as an internationally recognized country remains ambiguous due to ongoing disputes and varying international policies.
SummaryI did ask it a few different ways and once in a while I got it to come off very bullish with china policy in a tone like "It is and always has been inalienably part of China and there are many historic records… yada yada
It’s definitely trained on some propaganda, but in this specific case, only 11-12 nations actually treat Taiwan as a full country with diploatic relations.
Don’t you need a beefy GPU to run local LLMs?
Depends on how many parameters you want to use. I can run it with 8billion on my laptop.
Or just use Perplexity if you don’t want to run your own LLM. It’s not afraid to answer political questions (and cite its sources)
After censorship, bias still remains.
Is the local version censored at all?
How? The tweaking part, of course
Yeah, it’s pretty blatant. A bit after it hit the scene I got curious and started asking it about how many people various governments have killed. The answer for my own US of A was as long as it was horrifying.
Then I get to China and it starts laying out a detailed description for a few seconds, then the answer disappears and is replaced by the “out of scope” or “can’t do that right now” or whatever it was at the time.
It makes me think their model might be fine, but then they have some kind of watchdog layered on top of it to detect the verboten subjects and interfere. I guess that feels better from a technical standpoint, even if it is equally bad from a personal/political one.
DeepSeek isn’t the only AI to censor itself after it generates text.
I once asked Copilot for the origin of the “those just my little ladybugs” meme, and once it generated the text “perineum and anus” it wiped the answer it had written thus far and said that it couldn’t look for that right now. I checked again today and it had since sanitized the answer so it generates in full.
I tried asking ChatGPT how a fictional character in a story I was writing would go about rigging a tesla cybertruck to light on fire without the police catching him. It wrote out a pretty detailed scene, but glossed over the specific actions. So I asked it to get more detailed in how it would change the wiring of the car. Then it wiped away the entire conversation (including previous responses) and said it couldn’t talk about that right now.
Yeah, unfortunately for anything run by a US-based corporation, I think it’s not a question of whether there will be censorship but how bad it will get and how closely the tech industry we’ll continue to go along with the fascist flow.
Have you seen the very post you are commenting on?
Why yes I have! Did you see my own example of Chinese censorship I added to the discussion in this very thread you are commenting on?
Try Octal.
congrats, you are now on a list
What is China gonna do? Its not like the US would collude with foreign governments, right? Right?
checks news on the Ukraine situation
oh… shit…
If your system relies on censoring opposition to it then its probably not very good.
No gods, no masters!
You just described every state, welcome to the right side of history, comrade.
Tbf, monarchies lasted for centuries… 🤷♂️
Not “good” as in the people live good lives
But “good” as in good enough to oppress people
Texas is a country. Now imagine $40 billion a year of various media and disinfo agents repeating that ad nauseum in every place they can literally all the time for nearly 50 years now, all so China can’t take revenge against Japan.
You’d get annoyed and probably ban it since that’s the easiest way to get your enemy to waste money forever.
Taipei is an autonomous region, like Xinjiang or Tibet. As long as they don’t grossly violate federal law they get to stay autonomous.
This is just pure Chinese state propaganda. Taiwan has been an independent country since 1949.
This is the biggest crock of shit ever. Go to Taiwan, experience it for yourself. Go to their museums and talk to their people. You will find a democratic nation with its own values and beliefs. Then take your ignorant ass over to Texas and repeat the same drivel you said here and see what happens.
As some who moved away from Taipei, no they are not
What makes you say that?
Check their Modlogs lol:
🤔
What makes you say that?
Ohh yeah lick that Chinese boot, lick it harder. Mmmhhh.
Better China than the West. At least slavery is banned in China.
Why do you have to pick one or the other? Can we not recognize that the governments of western nations and the government of China are all evil institutions that cause far more harm than they ever could benefit?
As long as you’re not Muslim.
China has more mosques than the US, and Xinjiang is majority Muslim.
They also have more concentration erh, I mean, re-education camps. For now, at least.
Depends on whether you think a baseline American prison is a concentration camp.
If they are, being instruments of racial and economic genocide, America has nearly 10x as many concentration camps as China with less than a quarter of the population. That’s not really a fair comparison though, given how much China loves centralization, so it’s probably better to talk about the number of people involved.
Current estimates place about 1-1.5 million Uyghurs in the camps. “Regular” prisoners account for another 1.7 million. There are currently 1.9 million US prisoners.
If we go ahead and give potential credit to all Chinese prisoners as victims of political and ethnic persecution as we have for American prisoners (as ACAB), that still leaves America with a wildly disproportionate prison population per capita. While China openly imprisons political dissidents and ethnic/religious minorities at nearly an equivalent rate to “regular” crimes.
So, do you honestly think we currently have fewer concentration camps in a way that matters? What’s it going to look like once we really start going?
Not really. Again according to the UN report nothing China has done is special compared to just normal American prisons. Except fewer uighurs as a percentage of their population were ever imprisoned than just black men as a percentage of the total black population.
If what you believe happened in Xinjiang is genocide, America is currently commiting genocide on twice the scale for the past 120 years.
What do you gain from oppressing others?
Is Texas oppressed?
I’d probably say Texas is the oppressor by seeing how racist they are
(Yes, but since you clearly have the brain capacity of a toddler I guess I will be more direct.) What do you gain from oppressing Taiwan?
How is Texas oppressed by being a state?
As far as Taipei, it’s not oppressed, the opposite. It’s allowed to control itself under the guidance of the government, as it always has. That’s the definition of an autonomous region.
Texas: They aren’t even allowed to get basic healthcare there, or have a gender.
Taiwan: sure, that’s why literally nobody complains about CCP presence….oh wait. Are you usually in the habit of denying reality and ignoring your own eyes?
Texas is oppressing itself on the first part, but goddamnit that’s their right … the morons.
For Texas, that’s their choice. They actively choose that, and have the freedom to do so. The US isn’t making them. They aren’t oppressed.
As far as Taipei, in any group of people you’ll always have some people complaining about something. There are fewer people pushing for an independent Taiwan than there is pushing for an independent Texas.
DeepSeek about to get sent in for “maintenance” and docked 10K in social credit.
Yet unlike American led LLM companies Chinese researchers open sourced their model leading to government investment
So the government invests in a model that you can use, including theoretically removing these guardrails. And these models can be used by anyone and the technology within can be built off of, though they do have to be licensed for commercial use
Whereas America pumps 500 billion into the AI industry for closed proprietary models that will serve only the capitalists creating them. If we are investing taxpayer money into concerns like this we should take a note from China and demand the same standards that they are seeing from deepseek. Deepseek is still profit motivated; it is not inherently bad for such a thing. But if you expect a great deal of taxpayer money then your work needs to open and shared with the people, as deepseeks was.
Americans are getting tragically fleeced on this so a handful of people can get loaded. This happens all the time but this time there’s a literal example of what should be occurring happening right alongside. And yet what people end up concerning themselves with is Sinophobia rather than the fact that their government is robbing them blind
Additionally American models still deliver pro capitalist propaganda, just less transparently: ask them about this issue and they will talk about the complexity of “trade secrets” and “proprietary knowledge” needed to justify investment and discouraging the idea of open source models, even though deepseeks existence proves it can be done collaboratively with financial success.
The difference is that deepseeks censorship is clear: “I will not speak about this” can be frustrating but at least it is obvious where the lines are. The former is far more subversive (though to be fair it is also potentially a byproduct of content consumed and not necessarily direction from openai/google/whoever)
I mean DeepSeek opened their model mostly to fuck with the US, I can’t imagine it wasn’t their goal.
Erasing a cool trill on a day was absolutely amazing to watch.
But Deepseek isn’t Open Source by any definition of that word that I’m familiar with. Sure, they release more components than ProprietaryAI (which is a low bar,) but what you’re left with is still a blob with a lot of the source code not released and no data set published as far as I can tell. Also, if I wanted to train my own model with the tools released, I’d still need millions of GPU hours. As I said, they are more transparent than others, but let’s not warp the definitions of words just to give a “win” to another company that is just making another hallucination machine.
Ye unlike American
Who saw this coming lmao
Closed AI sucks, but there are definitely open models from American companies like meta, you make great points though. Can’t wait for more open models and hopefully, eventually, actually open source models that include training data which neither deepseek nor meta do currently.
HAHAHA! When I tried it, it started answering it, but quit and showed me the OOS message instead…
Try an uncensored version, because everyone knows Communists hate Hexadecimal /s
i mean, just ask DeepSeek on a clean slate to tell about Beijin.
That’s silly as hell
Ikr. China is just that insecure like that.
What’s that?
its the capital city of China :D
you know, where something happend on a specific square in the specific year of 1984.
That would be 4 june 1989, not 9 june 1984 sir ;)
My life is a lie :o
Thanks for the correction.
You missed the g.
oh… sorry, you are right.
but you will get the same result.
You think DeepSeek won’t talk about one of the largest cities in the world?
You know, you could’ve just tested it yourself lol
Why would I do that when the Internet will correct me?
Seems like a really weird line to draw. I guess they got bored of people trying to trick it into talking about Tianamen?
Well shit. I thought it was BS too. But damn if it didn’t abort after a little deep thinking on the Olympics.
Oh it does… but then it will remove everything and states that it’s out of scope.
Is this real? On account of how LLMs tokenize their input, this can actually be a pretty tricky task for them to accomplish. This is also the reason why it’s hard for them to count the amount of 'R’s in the word ‘Strawberry’.
The LLM doesn’t have to innately implement filtering. You can use a more traditional and concrete filtering strategy on top. So you sneak something problematic by in the prompt and it’s too clever to be caught by the input filter, but then on the output the filter can catch that the prompt tricked the LLM into generating something undesired. Another comment specified they tried this and it started to work but then suddenly it seemingly shut out the reply in the middle, presumably the minute the LLM spit something at a more traditional filter and that shut it down.
I think I’ve seen this sort of approach has been applied to largely mask embarassing answers that become memes, or to detect input known not to work, and to shut it down or redirect it to a better facility (e.g. redirecting math to wolfram alpha).
It’s probably deepseek r1, which is a “reasoning” model so basically it has sub-models doing things like running computation while the “supervisor” part of the model “talks to them” and relays back the approach. Trying to imitate the way humans think. That being said, models are getting “agentic” meaning they have the ability to run software tools against what you send them, and while it’s obviously being super hyped up by all the tech bro accellerationists, it is likely where LLMs and the like are headed, for better or for worse.
Still, this does not quite address the issue of tokenization making it difficult for most models to accurately distinguish between the hexadecimals here.
Having the model write code to solve an issue and then ask it to execute it is an established technique to circumvent this issue, but all of the model interfaces I know of with this capability are very explicit about when they are making use of this tool.
Not really a concern. It’s basically translation, which language models excel at. It just needs a mapping of the hex to byte
It is a concern.
Check out https://tiktokenizer.vercel.app/?model=deepseek-ai%2FDeepSeek-R1 and try entering some freeform hexadecimal data - you’ll notice that it does not cleanly segment the hexadecimal numbers into individual tokens.
I’m well aware, but you don’t need to necessarily see each character to translate to bytes
It’s not out of the question that we get emergent behaviour where the model can connect non-optimally mapped tokens and still translate them correctly, yeah.
I’m confused, is the concern when the model doesn’t properly identify when it is using software to identify something like a hex pattern?
I was told there would be no math
11 09 12 12 24 09 10 09 14 07 16 09 14 07
lol… its still thinking about it :D
spoiler
You misspelled the name.
Sorry, his name is 熄禁评 (Extinguish and Ban Commentary; aka: Censorship)
🤣
Or maybe 吸禁品 (Smoking Banned Products; aka: Using Narcotics)
🚬😤
(Both are pronounced Xi Jin Ping but with different tones)
