I had In The House - In A Heartbeat playing in my head while making this meme
sorry for the pixelation in the corner, I used a shitty website which put a watermark there
I had In The House - In A Heartbeat playing in my head while making this meme
sorry for the pixelation in the corner, I used a shitty website which put a watermark there
Wait, who what now? I’m not aware of any extra immigration requirements based on your health situation. I certainly didn’t get asked when I was a migrant.
To where? If you migrate to Canada you have to pass medical exam and all
Wat
It makes sense if you remember that the universal healthcare system is insurance.
So if you are trying to migrate without a job but with an expensive disabillity and little money, then you are just a liabillity to the healthcare system.
And since the country is under no obligation to pay for the care, there is no reason for them to do so.
It is just basic resource management, you may not like it, but it is reality, regardless of what political system the country uses.
Except people don’t move to a country expecting to not ever work… God forbid we pay for someone WhO DoEsNt DeSeRvE iT until they can get up to speed and on their feet…
We’re such assholes, especially us in the US…
You are absolutely correct, most people want to work when they can, but look at it from the government’s perspective, if they see a severely disabled person in his 50s with zero education, zero knowledge of the language wanting to migrate to the country, what they see is just an expense with few prospects of being able to contribute enough to offset the cost of treating/managing his disabillities.
He may be an absolute genious, but that is not known at the time, the government also must consider that any resources spent on this person can’t be spent on someone else.
So in this case the financial argument is clearly against accepting the person, based on the information the government has, the person should be rejected.
In a purely financial world, that would be it, but luckily we live in a world with more incentives than purely greed.
Taking in the person will generate goodwill in some parts of the world, that might be reason enough to do it, or perhaps the person has valuable information that could also be reason to let them in, perhaps this person is part of a political party in his original country that you want to remain good friends with, then this is an excellent opportunity to show support.
All of this is extermely cold and calculating, I absolutely conceede that, but a government can selldom afford to let feelings dictate policy.
Even governments showing compassion do it for their own gain, it’s good PR!
This is reality, and it is better to face it and deal with it than to fight with an immaginary entity.
There’s lots that do, and not everyone will be capable of contributing. What about a mother of two kids with autism? She can’t work, will spend all her time caring for her kids who will into ever be a burden on the system.
Every system is abused, that’s why they have limitations.
Ah, but is the cost of enforcing limitations justified by the amount of abuse that is being prevented? In a lot of cases, and in practically every case when it comes to a big government program, the answer is “no”, and we end up spending millions to prevent thousands of dollars being wasted.
Uhh no it doesn’t, why are you assuming that? How does preventing people coming in spend millions and save thousands?
Border enforcement is expensive. Hundreds of millions of dollars spent on military equipment, teams of enforcement officers, detention centers, transportation infrastructure, etc all to keep people out. People who, if allowed in, would buy goods and services, pay taxes, and get jobs. The amount we spend just to find and keep out the relatively small handful of people who are capable of traveling across the world but also incapable of getting a job is far, far more than the amount it would cost society to just let those people in.
No. Just no. People aren’t numbers on a spreadsheet. That’s some capitalism mind rot.
In this case we are numbers on a spreadsheet, we may not like it, but all nations have limited resorces, and need to practice resource management.
This goes for both capitalism and communism.
Anything else would be to deny reality.
However different governments use different metrics to approve or deny new citizens, but all boil down to if it is worth it to the country.
There, fixed it for you.
Which everyone knows are the two only economic systems possible 🙄
Fixed it for you again. You’re really guzzling that “my masters know best” kool-aid.
The fundamental purpose of governments is to maximize the well-being of the citizens and other inhabitants. When the government’s aims are in conflict with the well-being of the people, the government has failed.
Automatically rejecting people as worthwhile based on putting them in one column or the other on a spreadsheet is a particularly grievous failure.
Well you sure do live up to your nickname, being all hippie, but why are you fighting me?
I just explained the reasons why a country would need a medical checkup of anyone moving there.
I am just an IT guy, I don’t set policy.
Because you’re not just reporting on the awful status quo. You’re mis-characterizing it as natural and inevitable rather than a serious of choices, often wrong, that we keep letting people with questionable motives make on everyone’s behalf to the benefit of those who already have too much while others suffer from not having enough.
Put another way, you’re framing blind obedience to rules that haven’t served the vast majority of people well as not just a good idea but the ONLY possibility.
You may not set policy, but whether you’re aware of it or not, you’re defending policy that needs attacking.
The taxes people (in Australia) pay to finance public healthcare are numbers on a spreadsheet and we don’t have unlimited money.
I guess it is about proving that you can provide for yourself otherwise you won’t be allowed to permanently stay. But this doesn’t really have anything to do with the healthcare system. Just a guess.
Lots of places have this, I wouldn’t be able to be a Canadian citizen because of it.
Okay, so that’s two for Canada, one for “you have to prove you have a job or resources to support yourself, but no specific health care requirement”.
Gonna guess this is a Canadian thing, then? Or at least a thing in some places but definitely not “all the countries with good health care”.
I’ve only looked at Canada and Japan personally, but I can add that Japan also does this. The process of immigrating is to effectively prove you’ll be a net positive on their economy if you live there, limiting disability is one way they can do that.
Well, hey, all I can say is that’s not how it works either in my home country or in the other place where I lived as a long term resident, and I am glad that’s the case. Over here even undocumented migrants have a right to health care, which was not uncontroversial but is definitely the right call.
Yes illegal migrants have access, as well as do everyone else in those places like people taking in during war.
The topic is specifically about people immigrating to those places from a country without soical nets, to a place with social nets, where they can only take from the system and never put back.
Illegal migrants and people accepted during wars, WILL eventually contribute to society. Immigrants that are already disabled is something else entirely.
No it’s not. First of all, there is no requirement to be healthy to be able to be a migrant here. That’s not a thing in either my home country or the country I personally moved to. Both of those place have “social nets”.
I get being annoyed at the places where that is true, but why assume it’s universal? It clearly isn’t.
Or you just don’t understand the verbiage.
Which countries? I bet if we looked through there would be limitations.
I literally moved to a different country and lived there for a decade. I think I would have noticed while I was filling all the forms. I talked to no doctors, I answered no questions and nobody ever brought it up. The first time I got a physical after moving it was the yearly checkup at work.
And I’ve worked with migrants here as well. Hell, I’ve hired migrants. In one case we messed up the paperwork and had to start over. Not once did we check for any disability exemption of any kind.
And no, I’m not telling you my life history just because you’re too conservative to assume that countries don’t just issue blanket bans for sick people to be immigrants, go google it or something, do some research before telling other people on the Internet how the world works.
Places with social net for people with disabilities don’t just want people coming in and being a burden on the system.
In theory, as a citizen you’ve paid your due in taxes until you became a burden.
I am VERY glad that’s not how we frame it here.
I mean, hey, yeah, being a place where people like to retire the issue does come up in conversation, but health care is a constitutional right, it is provided universally and even undocumented migrants are allowed to access most of the system. Makes sense to me. You get taxed a proportional amount of what you make, everybody gets the support they need. I have several family members that would likely not be alive right now without that principle and that’s how I wanted to be treated when I lived abroad, so I have no problem extending the same privilege to others.
Yay for socialdemocracy, I guess.
You’re free to go to those places if you can support yourself or be supported by someone else who would be paying into the system.
Too many people abuse the system, and they would need to increase everyone else’s taxes if they just let everyone in. Reality is, no one wants double the taxes and people leaching off the system, even if they would lie and say it publicly.
It’s not framing anything, that’s just reality, you’re free to bury your head in the sand and think elsewise, but all it does it prove how foolish and naive you are.
I’m not “burying my head in the sand”, I live in a country where we have a constitution that recognizes a universal right to health care and I vote for governments that maintain that, even for immigrants.
Our health care is fine, our economy is doing fine and I am absolutely fine with the taxes I pay, publicly and privately. I’ve told my accountant as much, and in the country I migrated to I paid less taxes, so I even gave up some opportunities for tax exemptions because they seemed unfair, given the privilege I had access to and the kindness I was granted as a guest.
You being a bad person doesn’t mean everybody else is or that not being a dick is “naive”, friend. Some of us just choose not to live that way with full understanding of the situation. I get why you wouldn’t want to acknowledge it if that’s not you because woof, that sure makes you sound… not great. But, you know, you can’t bury your head in the sand and think elsewise, that’d just prove how foolish and cynical you are.
It’s the same thing in those countries, that’s why they restrict who comes in so not a million people come in and be burdens. Where are you referring to? I bet there’s restrictions and you just don’t know about them.
I already replied to you on this. I know about them. I’ve been a hiring manager for migrants, a migrant and also I have google and I did check before responding. And no, I’m not telling you the countries I’ve lived in, I don’t give a crap about your belief or acceptance. I’m telling you how it is, you can go look up examples yourself, take my word for it or keep making a fool of yourself online, I genuinely don’t care which one you choose, man.
https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration-refugees-citizenship/news/notices/changes-medical-inadmissibility-policy-irpa-take-effect.html
I think there is some thought going on about what it means as a society to discriminate against people with disabilities during immigration.
It seems like the US would have a similar problem with people moving between states that had medicaid expansion and ones that do not. I don’t know if there are any studies on the issue.
Discriminating during immigration based on a congenital disability feels like discriminating based on race to me.