For the millionth time, Stallman was right.
Yep, you send me html, my browser can interpret it any way that I want it to. If I want to ignore all of the image and script tags, I can. I don’t need Chrome or even Chromium. As Stallman says, you should know what is running on your system.
We need to go back to html and css. Using an ad blocker and noscript literally breaks webpages. I just want to read the article! You know the content ppl actually come for
But how is all the bloat going to get to you then? HTML with some images is equally functional and loads in a fraction of the time, because it is actually efficient. Nobody could want that could they?
How the fuck are people using the internet without an adblocker?
It is pracitcally impossible to differentiate content from ads. And i was just talking about all the bloat without the ads. Thank you for sharing this, i never thought it’d be this bad.
It’s such a bizarre situation. Either you heavily limit Javascript and basically destroy all web apps or you embrace it and get laughably slow websites with walls of ads that beg you to log in to actually view the page. Like if you look into it, it’s genuinely shocking how much software is a web browser running JS under the hood.
I can see legitimate uses for java script, like popping out a menu. But it seriously needs its capabilities restricted.
You can pop out menus with CSS.
needs its capabilities restricted
This is a bad take. How are you gonna do that? Force ECMA to scrap all the functionality deemed ‘bad’? Wave a magic tech wand? At the end of the day JS is a tool, and like any tool it can be abused for nefarious purposes. The issue is that advertisers abuse this tool, and the sites they pay to be shown on allow it. Not because insert scripting language exists.
It just occured to me that I wonder how a text browser addresses all this
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/07/25/voters-progressive-trump-harvard-youth-poll-gop/
Just tried it on browsor
That doesn’t mean his strategy and approach is good.
That doesn’t mean his strstegy and approach is good.
Who cares? Whether or not Stallman is a likeable person isn’t what’s important. His ideas are.
I think a lot of people here don’t understand the danger of this fully and dismiss it with “Just use Firefox, problem solved”.
Unfortunately, once this becomes widely available, that is once Chrome ships it, websites will start to use it.
Maybe Amazon will just not sell to you anymore when you’re browsing with Firefox?
Maybe YouTube wont serve any videos if you’re using Linux?
Your bank will certainly implement this and only allow Windows 11 with Edge or some shit like that.
Once this is implemented, we will all suffer, even if we’re using better alternatives right now.Your bank will certainly implement this
My brother in Christ, it was 2020 before my bank supported passwords longer than 8 characters. We have 30 or 40 years before we need to worry about the banks.
Some banks are still running windows 98 internally, admitedly so long as said system isnt connected to the internet it should be fine.
Lol, not to mention Cobalt and other horrors that are lurking in Legacy systems no one has looked at in 50 years.
I’m thinking mainframe terminals, where the character has to be in the right place on the screen in order to store something in RAM.
Even worse, how many systems are still using punch cards? How often do those cards need to be replaced?
deleted by creator
I’m glad you’re liking it.
Win 98
This isn’t true, this can’t be true and I refuse to believe it.
I sincerely hope that your local ATM never crashes and you never have to see the windows xp logo.
Have you ever rooted an android phone?
The google SafteyNet Attestation is the precursor to browser DRM. It’s essentially phone DRM.
There are many banks that have apps that require you to pass at least the basic level attestation, if not the CTS profile matching that fails the moment you modify any system level resources, even the bootloader
luckily you can force disable CTS so it falls back on the basic level, for most apps at least. You will never have access to Google or Samsung pay though, as it actually knows your phone model should support CTS and will autofail if it no longer reports that it does.
Alongside that apps like Pokemon GO and Netflix also require at least basic attestation to function - demonstrating the DRM and anticheat capabilities of such a system.
https://github.com/Magisk-Modules-Repo/MagiskHidePropsConf
This can help you pass CTS. It worked for me. Funny thing is, I don’t even remember which app I did it for. Whatever it was, I ended up not using it after all the trouble. As for my banking apps, they only care about root, so Magisk’s denylist does the job.
Yes, US banks.
Banks in europe are much more up to date with tech.
They have APIs to sink transactions with external providers like nordigen API.
They have 2FA that is linked to your national identity card which is chipped
Nationally used apps that are universal 2FA linked to national IDs that banks, medical, and government services all tap into
Everything is contactless payment nowadays, the US just recently started contactless cards
Inter-bank transfers without external apps like venmo
There are MANY problems with EU people getting their banks to work on a rooted phone.
They will absolutely implement DRM if someone sells the bullshit to them under the illusion of “safety.”
Hell, the US had handwritten “vaccine cards” for covid while European nations even had open source user spinoffs on nationally funded apps linked to national IDs to manage COVID vaccination and testing passes.
Technically the idea is that if Chrome has barely any market share (will never happen, but let’s pretend), they cannot implement this as it will anger and lock too many users out of day to day life.
However…
With Google Search and YouTube being by far the most 2 popular websites in the world, I think they still could. The vast majority of people would never give those up and if they’re told to use another program to access them, they absolutely will, meaning in an ideal world with a browser competition, they can easily destroy it immediately.
Google search has become very bad and is easily replaced by basically any search engine. YouTube is still unparalleled though.
It’s IE6 all over again.
Doesn’t that also mean they lose customers or possible transactions which could have made them money?
Would apple just roll over on this? Or would they fight to make sure safari is also an option to freely use the internet (or at least severely limiting apples ability to do something similar) And websites that depend on ads, the number of Firefox and safari users have to be greater than the number of users who use ad-blockers. So wouldn’t it negatively affect ad income on websites if they implemented it and cut out all non-chromium browsers?
I think apple would figure out some very creative ways to fuck it’s customers, some more.
Did Firefox even say that they would not implement it as well? Are there any informations on that?
They said they would not: https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/852
Stop using chrome. Yes brave is chrome
@nicman24 firefox is not chromium…
Gecko, the underlying engine behind Firefox, is an entirely different code base from Chromium
Firefox doesn’t use chromium. It uses Gecko, which is an entirely separate codebase.
But that’s also not private as has been claimed as a reason to go FF. The only reason to use FF is only to not use chrome. Not for all the reasons that chrome is bad.
Tor Browser, LibreWolf, and Arkenfox JS are the most secure and private browsers you can get and they’re all based on Firefox. If they’re not private enough for you, I don’t know what is
Firefox uses their own engine IIRC, that’s why more people should be using it so we can get some competition with Chromium.
I think the management’s recent decisions, as well as the removal/lack of power-user features for those users, have moved a lot of people away from Firefox, myself included. They really need to focus on providing really good software, not get caught up in trying to chase trends or forcing services people don’t want. This WIRED article does a good job explaining the issues.
I am keeping an eye on Pulse Browser, which is an experimental fork of Firefox with uBlock Origin pre-installed and some UI customisations. They’ve got a sidebar with “web panels” very much like Vivaldi’s Panels, and they’ve got vertical tabs like Edge. People also seem to be posting suggestions to their discussion page on GitHub. It’s early days, but if they listen and try to implement some of the suggested features to their best ability, it could be a much better Firefox than Firefox itself.
Edit: From Pulse’s Discord, I just found out Mozilla bought Fakespot and are integrating that into Firefox. Some people are definitely going to think that’s bloat.
Yeah but if you dont support Mozilla Firefox the project will run out of resources and only one engine will be left chromium.
tbh I’m just tired of all of this, we can’t have nice things, ever… Every fucking thing in this world is being swallowed by corporate greed. Every service there’s a catch, and I’m getting mad with it, things aren’t made to serve their purpose, they only exist to make money and more money for people who already have infinite money, it’s frustrating. Things need to change or everything is going to collapse… fuck companies, fuck billionaires, fuck stocks, fuck all of this
Like, seriously, went through the last 10 years spending a good chunk of my day on Twitter and Reddit using Chrome, and suddenly I’m on Lemmy/Mastodon on Firefox.
Firefox’s been better since Quantum.
It feels like much much faster than Chrome, not gonna lie.
And ram efficient
That is only because it doesn’t keep all tabs loaded in RAM all of the time though.
If you open the same pages with the same installed extensions on both you will see similar RAM usage. It is only on restoring sessions or longer-term sessions that you will see a difference because FF will reload the page when it is activated again where chrome will keep it in RAM.
At least that used to be the case.
I mean yes, that’s the main reason, but that doesn’t make it any less true. I like being able to have a couple extra tabs open just to have them there, not having them to use up resources seems kind of like a given.
This is my exact change. They want to shittify things I’ll switch or just stop using it. I’m at my breaking point.
Eerily feels like I wrote that comment.
Seriously… my oldest account on Reddit was 12 years old. I’ve been through so many changes that turned me off, but the API stuff was the last blow, and the CEO’s love for Elon Musk just sealed the deal.
Did not hear about that. He sucks, but Elmo sucks more.
Elmo sucks?
Lol I think he meant Elon.
Do you miss anything?
I won’t lie that it’s been an adjustment. Old habits die hard. Reddit is the one that I am more certainly done with. No one is on Mastodon yet so I do browse Twitter a little bit to get updates on the stuff I like, but don’t interact there anymore.
I miss a lot of my niche content
Well, best thing to counter that is to be the change you want to see. Start the community for the niche you miss the most/know the most about. Post something daily for two weeks + do a call for mods, and before you know you’ll have at least some activity. I (helped) to bootstrap !openstreetmap@lemmy.ml this way, and the community has about 1 top level post per day on average now. Not a lot, but a good start.
Just use Firefox, Mozilla already put their stance forward as opposing this garbage
Firefox is faster than chrome anyway nowadays.
Nowadays? I think you mean since always :)
I get your sentiment, but chrome 1 was crazy fast and seemed barely functional coming from a world of toolbars for most people.
At the time people were like “I can’t use this, there’s only this search bar”
That may be true on desktop. But, unfortunately, the mobile app is way behind chromium. From being unresponsive, to outright buggy. It’s not a good experince. It’s been 2 years since the rewrite but it’s not getting much better or even close to fixing most of its issue. Meaning, using firefox on android is a handicap on yourself.
Gonna need some statistics on this, because your anecdotal experience is not at all like mine. FF is totally useable on Android.
Ditto, I barely noticed the switch.
The only inconvenience is that it doesn’t prefill my credit card details, which is probably a good thing from both a security and hip pocket angle anyway
Good and bad news: You can easily add credit cards to autofill on Firefox too. It’s under Settings -> Privacy and Security.
I have used Firefox on many smartphones since 2014. It’s not an anecdotal experience of mine. It’s the difference between chromium based browsers on android being more efficient compared to Firefox. Here’s the github issue which was open from 2020, now moved to Bugzilla: https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/fenix/issues/12731#event-8105829420
If this did not happen it would not have been kept open for so long. Just search tab reload in closed issues you will people still complaining while the repo was accessible.
Bugzilla issue from 2 years ago: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1752594
The migrated issue from github: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1807364
Thanks for the concrete reply! I assume if this bug is affecting me it’s just not enough of an issue to be noticable on my hardware (Pixel 5)
I use it because I can use it to block ads. If a page doesn’t work, I’ll use chrome.
I actually use Chrome on Windows. I just dislike ads more than I like Chrome.
I am basically the same. I’m loving the ability to use uBlock Origin across phone and desktop and practically never see ads, but some sites just don’t work for me in Firefox. Like anything where I have signed up with my Google account, or my online banking. In which case I have Chrome installed as a backup. If I could purge it completely I would, but this works for now.
Ive used FF on my android phone for years and had no noteworthy issues the entire time, not sure what youre on about
I’m talking about the tab reload issue. Check my reply to other comment. Where I link issues. Basically you cannot fill forms, multi task or do stuff without the tab reloading on you. This issue has been ongoing since 2020. I changed phones but this issue did not change once. Permalink to that comment: https://lemmy.ml/comment/2013238
Ive never had any issue like that to be honest, and I have been using FF literally daily for years. Most of my social circle are yucky apple product users so I haven’t even heard of this issue until now. Im sorry you and other people have it because tbh FF is basically perfect, at least for what I need it for
Thanks for acknowledging the issue. I’m on android which could make some difference. I install Firefox with ublock origin as good adblocking solution for others. Most do not appear to notice this issue so it’s not a problem. Hopefully, it’s fixed for the ones experiencing this issue.
As someone who has used Firefox on Android for 9 years plus… “lol, wut?!”
It was bad, 7 years ago, and has been solid for at least 4 years.
Are you kidding?! Firefox on android isn’t just better than Chrome in feature set, as it has been for like a decade, it’s been faster than Chrome for at least a year, in my personal experience.
Yeah, to be honest the FF Android experience just can’t match Chromium.
I don’t really NEED to, so I’m not switching from Firefox anytime soon, but I wish they’d at least fix recently closed tabs reappearing every time I reopen the darned thing…
Google in 2004: don’t be evil Google in 2023: turns into Dr. Evil
Something-something die as a hero or become the villain.
“What’s internet? It it like Googlenet but worse?”
-Some kid in the future
Ah yes, 2023. The year I wore a pirate hat and touched more grass. Soon they’ll be bribing the govt to make going outside illegal.
Soon they’ll be bribing the govt to make going outside illegal.
That was 2020
One more time if anyone says that capitalism breeds innovation we need to show them this ¡!
restricted capitalism does that. regular capitalism makes monopoly.
This ain’t capitalism, this is going back to a rent based economy.
Aka: Techno Feudalism
Let me just point you to this:
https://doctorow.medium.com/autoenshittification-cb851c2574fb
Paywall!
This is innovation though, an internet wide DRM would be quite an impressive technical feat. It’s just not innovation built to benefit you and me, it’s built to benefit Google’s true customers, advertisers
So you want government to do this?
Anarchy please
DRM is stupid because it interferes with paying customers and isn’t effective. If there’s a will there’s a way
It’s also stupid because it’s encryption but Bob and Eve are the same person.
I guess we have to get a subscription on top of our monthly internet bill to use the internet.
Not one-for-one, but the BBC actually wanted to put a tax on broadband bills in response to the resentment towards the TV License.
*loicense
Can’t wait to have to subscribe to everything and they’ll still sell my data
Honestly this is just depressing. And a little scary ?
Corporate greed is taking new heights and the things we took for granted are being taken away. It is all so dystopic…
Yeet.
We’ll make out own internet! With blackjack and hookers!
You jest but I’m feeling pretty ready to switch to mesh networking. I’d rather have a libre internet than faster bandwidth.
Dont forget the drone tracking bill, remoteID. Louis Rossemann
I’m used to dealing with DRM, too. If it can be stripped out of a game or other software, it could be stripped out of the internet itself. Maybe some of the old cracking scenes that quit due to boredom will return for the challenge.
Analog hole exists and will be prevalent on new internet unless they push DRM monitor https://xkcd.com/129/
You can be sure as hell they will. If greater the force, the greater the resistance.
It’s interesting to think about from a technological point of view, and there could be multiple ingress points to combat it.
The proposal doesn’t have a complete implementation, but it in essence they want websites to ask browsers for a key if sorts (attestation). In theory this flow would be a lot like hoe notifications work. Keeping that in mind, when the website asks the browser, what’s stopping us from making our own attestation server?
