Asking as there has been a few comments mentioning this with the new !stardewvalley@lemm.ee taking over !stardewvalley@lemmy.ml
!yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com for additional context on those recent events if you are interested
Also, an older post for more context on how lemmy.ml is managed: https://lemmy.world/post/16211417
Curious to hear other thoughts about this, as I’m trying to keep !simracing@lemmy.ml active, but might suggest to move it elsewhere if a lot of people prefer not to interact with lemmy.ml communities
The path to inner peace.
Why midwest.social? I definitely agree with the rest though.
Similar “moderation” practices as done on lemmy.ml, but unlike the latter, the users of Midwest.social themselves seem mostly well-behaved rather than toxic edgelords. Note that not all of the Lemmy.ml users are that way, and I might even believe that most are not, but conversely whenever I see the most batshit insane comments, it is always from one of the big 3: lemmygrad.ml, hexbear.net, and to a lesser but still extremely notable degree, Lemmy.ml.
https://lemmy.world/post/18414833
https://lemmy.world/post/19849559
etc.
Usual tankie nonsense masquerading as progressivism.
Call out their bullshit, get a ban.
I haven’t seen that on midwest.social yet, but I’m definitely gonna continue to observe this and then decide if it’s worth blocking them
I definitely try to avoid it. Whenever there’s an (active) alternative community available, I prefer that.
Yep. Even if it’s larger, I’ll post in a smaller, non-ml. I don’t mind reading their stuff and them existing but with the seemingly random moderation shenanigans, I avoid it.
Previously no. Now yes. Apparently got banned for inciting ‘peril’ against my own race because tankies don’t know the difference between ethnically Chinese and of Chinese nationality, and apparently you can’t criticize china in the forums. Throw in a few abusive individuals from the same instance shooting off the mouth and I pretty much said fuck it, I’m out.
I see more content complaining about .ml than I see content on .ml worth complaining about.
I generally don’t block instances, communities, or users, either. I just know I am capable of recognizing a shit take on politics anywhere and can move on without existential or social crisis.
That’s bc you are an established user who knows their way around how to use Lemmy. Perhaps you even use Arch btw? (/s, but only partway, bc those of who enjoy the customizability of Linux really are a breed apart from the mainstream, in terms of our value judgements in particular)
However new users to Lemmy find it very off-putting. Also, people in the USA are touchy, watching our democracy crumble before our very eyes - there is something like a 50% chance that it won’t survive even though the next year, regardless of who wins, but if it does, then we’ll simply repeat all of this again in the next one, and so on. So for those of us who watched e.g. Innuendo Studios’ The Alt Right Playbook, to now see those identical patterns of behaviors on display (by “tankies” or whoever), is more than a little disconcerting.
And tbf, the likes of lemmy.ml is nothing at all on the scale of Lemmygrad.ml and hexbear.net. So if you want to remain federated with some or all of those, then power to you and I am very glad that you can enjoy your time on the Fediverse.
However, not all of us are in the same boat and some of us would rather only see the half of the conversation that we don’t have to mentally parse and decode what it means before we throw it away. Without having to block hundreds of individual trolls I mean. Ofc we are prevented from doing so since user level defederation does not exist, and the only instance I’ve ever even so much as heard of that blocks all of the big 3 is Lemmy.cafe. So rather than wait for Sublinks/PieFed/Mbin to improve, perhaps I should move there?
Maybe this is all intellectual laziness? I dunno, I truly don’t, but also I don’t see the harm in allowing people to have their preferences met?
some of us would rather only see the half of the conversation
Well I guess the only thing I could possibly say to that woul–
Hehe, way to be a part of the chang–
I only block communities. I don’t want to see half of conversations, and haven’t encountered a whole server where they refuse to admin properly.
I just know I am capable of recognizing a shit take on politics anywhere
Not when the “shit take” in question is the arbitrary, capricious, unjustified removal of thoughtful, insightful, accurate, reasonable posts and comments. You (generally) can’t recognize the “shit take” of removing good content unless you spend all day reading the mod logs.
No, but I can almost always check the modlog when a user complains about how their thoughtful, insightful, accurate, and reasonable post or comment was arbitrarily, capriciously, and unjustly removed.
And that comparison rarely disappoints.
No, but I can almost always check the modlog
whenif a user complainsFTFY.
The authors of thoughtful, insightful, accurate, and reasonable posts and comments tend to be the kind of people who choose their battles, and quietly walk away from communities led by power-tripping dipshits.
Very well articulated!:-)
What’s wrong with lemmy.ml?
As someone on .ml I really don’t think it’s that bad. Definitely left, and generally pro-China, but not too extreme imo. Hexbear is pretty bad. I’m a socialist and I disagree with a lot of the stuff there. But .ml is very much not a true “tankie” instance, in my opinion.
A lot of the issues people have with .ml are the practices of the admins.
Though also when hexbear.net was defederated from so many instances, a lot of those users switched to using their Lemmy.ml alts - many are quite open about this fact - and just continued posting as they had done previously, despite that style being the very reason why hexbear.net had been defederated from.
And when more instances - like lemmy.cafe - start defederating from Lemmy.ml, then those users will surely switch to alts on something like lemmy.world or Lemm.ee that are generally considered too large to be defederated from.
A lot of innocent users get caught up in the cross hairs of this fight between tankies vs. anti-tankies. People using your instance as a platform to attack (e.g. brigade and otherwise spew forth toxicity) other instances, yet possibly behaving normally else wise inside the instance itself.
Also, whether something is “extreme” or not depends on someone’s background context, and I would definitely say that the content on lemmy.ml is considered somewhat extreme for someone on America. Even/especially those who even consider themselves as “liberal”, not realizing yet what little that means on the international stage. The content is nowhere close to being as extreme as that from lemmygrad.ml or hexbear.net, but far more so than e.g. Reddit or Mastodon.
So I hope I have adequately conveyed that it’s not your fault in any way, you also expanding to mean all the other innocent users on lemmy.ml, but I wanted to convey that yes, I would defederate myself from your instance in a heartbeat if given half the chance. Possibly you won’t even mind:-), but you seemed interested, so I hope I helped by writing all this out.
Also, whether something is “extreme” or not depends on someone’s background context, and I would definitely say that the content on lemmy.ml is considered somewhat extreme for someone on America.
Weirdly, I find a lot of the content on America-centric sources (not just in Lemmy) to be pretty damned extreme myself. Like the casual assumption that guns are the right way to deal with all problems. (Slightly exaggerated, yes, but sadly only slightly.)
Sigh… yup. Much of that has been traced back and shown to not have originated from inside the USA, but it does not matter how it started bc it’s endemic now. And regardless of the rhetoric the news itself is pretty violent, with all the reporting of mass shootings - you know, bc they actually happened, except most of the time the for-profit news media doesn’t bother anymore, and instead prefers to sell something sexier than all the needless deaths of children.
But you can’t wake someone up if they refuse to come into the door in the first place - that is what I meant about labeling content to make it more acceptable to a mainstream audience, so as to boost subscriber counts and thereby increase the overall health of the Fediverse. Being okay with stagnation seems unwise to me, bc it predicates a fall.
Oh yeah, and it makes total sense. The brigading, insofar as it happens, really shouldn’t. But also, as someone who espouses left wing views, I always want to give critical support to left spaces - even if they’re imperfect. And .ml and even hexbear have a lot of valuable discourse - I comment on hexbear threads regularly with less radical points of view than their users often have, and I get good responses and engagement usually because I’m good faith.
I thought I was left-wing myself, then realized that I may as well be a right-wing nut compared to global standards!:-D
But it takes time for people to learn and change. Mainstream people in the USA may still have valuable contributions to make here, like funny cartoons for us all to laugh at, and thus I decry how they are pushed away due to the extremist content on the Fediverse.
After watching Innuendo Studios’ The Alt Right Playbook, I just cannot listen to hexbears anymore. Those attempts to bully people in just about every conversation with “tactics” other than relying on the logical truths of the issues themselves just really turns me away.
Be careful - your circumstances surely differ from mine, with like your family and job and such - but I note that they are far more likely to change you than the reverse. It’s just how that works.
deleted by creator
US Democrat members get upset that the instance with 1600 users doesn’t agree with their opinions
Literally everyone else: “It’s bad to arbitrarily arrest someone for criticising corruption and send them and their family to labour camps.”
Tankies: “That’s just, your opinion, man.”
There they are!!!
This is literally it. I hear so much hate towards .ml that I find it hard dtobelieve they are fanatics lol
I found this in like 30 seconds yesterday: https://lemmy.ml/post/21605430.
Not that the content isn’t true, mind you, but it takes a special kind of cognitive dissonance to constantly make fun of capitalism and the USA, then wonder why people in capitalist nations and especially the USA don’t want to come hang out there. (Hey, only we can say the bad stuff about ourselves, ya’know!?:-P)
Found the alt
Found the fanatic. Lol
lemmy.ml tends to have an immature userbase with immature mods. It’s a weird bubble of insane extremists that are all about ideological purity tests. They aren’t really interested in discussion and will ban anyone that doesn’t conform to their extremism. And their extremists are constantly edging towards stochastic terrorism.
So needless to say, I’m banned from lemmy.ml, and I feel like that’s a badge of honour. But that does mean I won’t be engaging with any community that’s hosted on lemmy.ml.
So if you want to have discussion that’s not about how super awesome the violent overthrow of the government of your country would be, I’d recommend not hosting your community on lemmy.ml.
So what you are saying is that since you are banned from lemmy.ml, you cannot participate in communities such as Firefox@lemmy.ml, for reasons entirely unrelated to anything that you said in that community?
Which means conversely that from your perspective, that entire community - and all others likewise hosted on lemmy.ml - are “held hostage” behind you either outright agreeing with whatever stance is taken by the instance admins, about whatever subject matters they choose to be the defining criteria for exclusion from the instance, or else at least you need to STFU about your true thoughts, about e.g. China, and capitalism, and Russia, and whatever else they feel like adding at any given moment.
It would have been nice to have had a warning presented to you, wouldn’t it? Like when you first go there, have a popup or sidebar note saying “Warning: you must agree that neither China nor Russia is actively engaging in genocide in order to participate in this community discussion about… <checks notes> the popular Firefox web browser”.
I bet reading the sidebar notice presented on lemmy.ca did not quite prepare you for that!?!?!?
It would be nicer to segregate “political” communities and instances from apolitical ones. Except these days, facts themselves are political, and all we can do is suck it and swallow.
I never pay attention to, or care about where a community is hosted
I block politics subs and have never had an issue with lemmy.ml. All the issues I see are related to politics.
No, there are no instances whose communities I refuse to participate on. I have never blocked a community, user, or instance here.
Oh man I don’t know how I would use this place if I couldn’t block communities. First few weeks I try to use Lemmy every single post was just memes so I’d end up blocking like two dozen communities to stop it.
Not to mention just randomly scrolling in public and whoops, it’s a random porn clip brought to you by lemmynsfw
In your Settings is an option to ban all content labelled as NSFW regardless of its origin.
*Besides the ones your instance has defederated from
Me too but clearly Lemmy.ml doesn’t like me xD
I have to say the responses in this thread are a bummer, but I’m not surprised. I signed up on lemmy.ml because when I read the descriptions of the various instances, ML’s “A community of privacy and FOSS enthusiasts” sounded pretty great and I saw a lot of technical communities that interested me. I didn’t expect the politics. I tried to make a new user on .world a few months back, but I seemed to get stuck in some sort of user verification limbo. Maybe I’ll try midwest.social since I moved to the midwest recently.
DBZero is a great option if you like something slightly edgy
Dbzero and programming.dev are already also high on my list, but thanks for the recommendation. I’m not in a super hurry to move or anything, I’ve never been given a hard time on ML, but I hate to think I’m slowly being edged out of the wider lemmy experience.
slowly being edged out of the wider lemmy experience.
If your home instance is lemmy.ml and it’s just people using communities on instances other than lemmy.ml, then you still get the full experience, unless you’re committed to only using locally-hosted communities or something.
If instances are defederating with lemmy.ml, then you’re missing content.
I don’t know of an easy way to get a list of which instances have defederated with a given instance. The information is public, and I wouldn’t be surprised if someone has a spider, like the lemmyverse.net one, that gathers it. But as things stand, it’s easy to, given an instance name, know which instances it has defederated from, but not which instances have defederated from it.
It’s absolutely the defederating that worries me more than the blocking. I have seen talk about nontrivial lemmy instances mulling defederation enough to keep an eye on it though.
I don’t know of an easy way to get a list of which instances have defederated with a given instance.
there’s a website out there showing exactly this,but for the life of me I can’t rememeber the URL >_<
There used to be this, but most of the instances give errors nowadays:
https://defed.xyz/check?name=Lemmy.ml&software=lemmy
This one seems to work: https://fba.ryona.agency/?reverse=Lemmy.ml
At least the latter one is just showing which instances the named instance has defederated from, not which instances have defederated from the named instance.
That’s easy to get by checking /instances on a given instance already.
The problem is that you’d need some kind of spider that crawls all of the instances to get the reverse of that.
The former one does seem to show it.
At least the latter one is just showing which instances the named instance has defederated from, not which instances have defederated from the named instance.
You are correct, I don’t why they called it reverse, it’s confusing
Here’s the search I wanted: https://fba.ryona.agency/?domain=Lemmy.ml
Oh yeah that’s the one
.ca is good as well, the admin is top tier and very transparent with the userbase. I’m quite happy with my instance.
And you have to endure the hex and ml users… yay…
No, because its nonsense tribalism. I haven’t seen any actual consistency in nonsense takes between any particular instances, with only a couple of extreme examples (explodingheads, grad, yddrasil, etc) that are already blocked or dehosted. ML has more socialists, because lemmy was a little leftist community project at first and it’s one of the oldest and biggest instances. Big instances also have a lot of idiots. World has a reputation for a lot of idiots, because it’s by far the biggest instance. That doesn’t mean everyone, or even most people, are idiots that are on the instance.
Ignoring reality doesn’t make it less true. Certain groups of people or environments are worse than others, acting like that isn’t reality is pretty naive.
If there was a pro slavery, racist group would you say they deserve to be respected, of course not. There is a line, we just disagree on where it is. And calling that disagreement tribalism is simply trying to hand wave away valid criticism.
When the admins spend more time banning people for speaking against fascist russia than developing lemmy it doesn’t matter what the userbase is like. And not wanting to participate in an instance where the admins religiously scan every comment for wrongthink is pretty reasonable and not tribalism.
It’s full of Tankies spewing disinformation and ban you for moderate stances. Take their news community for example.
Take their news community for example.
No thank you, I would pay to avoid that actually! 😆
Before I completely defederated from them, their “news” communities were the first ones I ever had to administratively remove/hide because it was nothing but propaganda and bad faith posts.
Omg you defederated from them - that’s amazing! I’ve been going around saying that lemmy.cafe is the only instance I’ve ever even heard of that has done so, but now I can add dubvee.org to that list as well.
Damn, you keep impressing the hell out of me!:-P Every time I dig deeper, there’s always another thing to like below that!:-)
Lol, thanks. I just try to curate the best experience as I can for my instance.
Re: Defederation
Lolz so true!!:-)
I don’t have anything against .ml users as a whole. As you say, every instance has its bad apples.
But .ml has the most hostile and heavy-handed admins of any instance I know of. It makes it impossible to have real conversations because talking about certain topics will get you instantly banned from the whole instance. It’s not about socialism either. In fact that’s part of the problem—I’m a leftist myself who would like to discuss leftism there and I used to enjoy doing so, but at this point that’s only possible if you follow the admin’s ideological beliefs on practically everything to a tee. It’s a toxic environment where real conversations can’t take place.
I’m only an idiot when I fully intend to be one.
This is the biggest flaw with Lemmy at the moment.
I think I’m on my 4th account . Mods tend to block me befor I block them, because I don’t adhere to tribal rules.
I’m probably anarchist / socialist politically but I call out bullshit when I see it. People don’t like that.
This is something that that bothers me… I joined lemmy.ml around 3 years ago as one of the pirate subs on reddit made a backup community there in case they were banned.
Fast forward to the api debacle, I started to use lemmy as a permanent alternative, and made 3 of my favourite art communities- abstract photography, collage and printmaking
It’s always been in the back (and sometimes the front of my mind) whether to move them elsewhere, partly because people commenting on their ‘blanket ban’ of lemmy.ml, and the fact that I sometimes feel that I’m on one of the ‘pariah’ instances.
It’s interesting reading the comments here, especially considering the art communities are laid back, without politics, and haven’t had any issues (so far)…
Moving communities is always an option.
We moved !casualconversation@lemmy.world to !casualconversation@lemm.ee a while ago, it worked fine, it’s even more active now that it used to be as there is no delay due to LW size
Yep, it’s something that has occurred to me, I’ve got an idea of which instance and all that, but I’d probably need to speak with the admins. I don’t know whether communities can migrate over posts/comments etc and part of me is reluctant to leave all that behind… BUT, I’ve done it once from scratch, so it’s not impossible
For me it was a blanket ban that finally caused me to unsubscribe from every ml community. If it wasn’t for that then it might be OK to keep hosting a non-political sub but the censorship over there is so aggressive and widespread that it’s very difficult to avoid.
I would say think about migration because if anything the problem is getting worse over time.
I do agree that art subs in general are among the most politics-free areas of lemmy, (speaking as a moderator of traditional art)
I have mostly refrained from posting political art, even though I do really like a good caricature (I grew up on Spitting Image, and other British satire progs), and also political art is, well… art
But, people come to see the nice pictures and chill out for a bit, which is fair, and it’s good to have that as a community
Although if other people either get banned as a result of saying something about China or Russia etc., or they choose for themselves to defederate somehow, then over time that is an increasing number of people across the Fediverse who cannot enjoy that artwork.
It’s like… what if the Library of Alexandria had made some copies and sent it out to remote places, before being (accidentally?) burned down by Julius Caesar during his civil war?
If that artwork is important to be seen by people everywhere, then why allow it to be held hostage by an admin team that could at any moment add still more things to the unnamed list of topics that are forbidden to be discussed on that instance? China, Russia, Uyghurs, Ukraine, Israel, Palestine, Gaza, Taiwan, and… what else will it be tomorrow?
You might even say something that gets taken out of context and be banned from the entire instance yourself. “Killing Uyghurs is not the best work I have seen” - no no, I meant that killing them isn’t happening at all, I was referring to the title of the painting!?
Well, it’s something to consider. I hope I am not coming across here as being too extreme, just trying to offer some thoughts along the lines that you mentioned that you have already started, in case it would be appreciated.:-)
Of course.
They banned me for calling Russia imperialist in one of their rant post, and claiming NATO was necessary because countries keep invading their neighbors.
Meanwhile the Hexbear users saying that “crackers” should be murdered are welcome to continue their discussions on .ml.
Our based opinions aren’t allowed over there. You have to bend left until your view is broken.
I mean really you’re bending upward to authoritarian on the compass
< looks around at Western countries with militarized police forces, brutal suppression of protest, and high incarceration rates >
“This is fine. Tankies are authoritarian.”
If something is bad, then all its adversaries are good and can do no wrong.
Lemmy is already fairly left. ML is tankie from what I understand, so that would not be further left but upward, right? I hope you didn’t get the impression I’m a fan of prison slave labor and western imperialism. Many things can be and are bad at once
Same, but Gyna.
I’ve blocked the instance quite a while ago. In the beginning I was just blocking communities, but the users spill everywhere unless you go nuclear.
Thanks for this info, I didn’t realize you could block an entire instance.
You can’t really. I mean you can block an instance, but that only hides the communities that are on it - you’ll still see the users. The only way I know how to ditch the users, besides blocking each one individually, would be to make a new account on either dubvee.org or Lemmy.cafe where all 3 of the big 3 are completely defederated. Think of those instances as troll-blockers, working hard to keep the Fediverse pleasant to converse in:-).
