If “they don’t repeat old mistakes” (like communist china not starving Ukranians, for instance), millions of people still die (like communist china killing all the sparrows, for instance), but at least the despots killed all those people in a different way! The last bit is the usual refutation from lemmygradniks, that all of that never happened, as it was just western propaganda, and then I threw in the russian word for commrade for extra sarcasm.
You really gotta get out more if you haven’t had those arguments with those crazy bastards, though they are on “your team” (at least the one you’re defending, communism) so I’d imagine you don’t argue with them often as it were.
The prc and ussr both had famines, yeah. One of the greatest tragedies of the sino soviet split is the lack of cooperation during the chinese one.
I don’t know what people told you, but there absolutely was a ton of misinformation about the soviet famine that got revealed once 1992 rolled around and the archives opened up. Turned out they had some terrible fuckups and bad luck but there wasn’t any deliberate starvation.
Communists argue about this stuff all the time, we just recognize people trying to understand conflicting information versus people trying to have a big fight or a debate. Part of the reason you get so much flak is because someone interested in learning how to understand conflicting information will gladly read a two hundred page analysis of a four hundred page historical text and discuss it openly while a person looking for a fight will call names and act like bringing up the famines is some gotcha that unmasks the internet communist for the scooby doo villian they are.
Long form holodomor denial? Good look lol. Now do the Armenian Genocide, and follow up with “that wasn’t real communism” and we’ll hit 'em all!
So you really think that the communists I talk to are usually genocide denialists because I’m clearly not communist and not interested in listening to pages of genocide denial, so the communists who aren’t genocide denialists won’t talk to me? Maybe that’s the problem, but it isn’t a “me” problem, it’s a “communists who don’t deny their atrocities” problem, they should again be “louder” than their “not numerous” compatriots. Every 50th (ykwim) one I get will actually admit those failings, but then they usually still want to kill a bunch of people now which I also sorta kinda have a problem with. Murder is wrong even if you dehumanize your enemy sufficiently and feel justified, self defense is one thing but that easily gets twisted from reality to fit their revenge fantasies, and I’m really just not about it.
what are you talking about? I can’t read cyrillic, what’s that last word?
If “they don’t repeat old mistakes” (like communist china not starving Ukranians, for instance), millions of people still die (like communist china killing all the sparrows, for instance), but at least the despots killed all those people in a different way! The last bit is the usual refutation from lemmygradniks, that all of that never happened, as it was just western propaganda, and then I threw in the russian word for commrade for extra sarcasm.
You really gotta get out more if you haven’t had those arguments with those crazy bastards, though they are on “your team” (at least the one you’re defending, communism) so I’d imagine you don’t argue with them often as it were.
The prc and ussr both had famines, yeah. One of the greatest tragedies of the sino soviet split is the lack of cooperation during the chinese one.
I don’t know what people told you, but there absolutely was a ton of misinformation about the soviet famine that got revealed once 1992 rolled around and the archives opened up. Turned out they had some terrible fuckups and bad luck but there wasn’t any deliberate starvation.
Communists argue about this stuff all the time, we just recognize people trying to understand conflicting information versus people trying to have a big fight or a debate. Part of the reason you get so much flak is because someone interested in learning how to understand conflicting information will gladly read a two hundred page analysis of a four hundred page historical text and discuss it openly while a person looking for a fight will call names and act like bringing up the famines is some gotcha that unmasks the internet communist for the scooby doo villian they are.
Long form holodomor denial? Good look lol. Now do the Armenian Genocide, and follow up with “that wasn’t real communism” and we’ll hit 'em all!
So you really think that the communists I talk to are usually genocide denialists because I’m clearly not communist and not interested in listening to pages of genocide denial, so the communists who aren’t genocide denialists won’t talk to me? Maybe that’s the problem, but it isn’t a “me” problem, it’s a “communists who don’t deny their atrocities” problem, they should again be “louder” than their “not numerous” compatriots. Every 50th (ykwim) one I get will actually admit those failings, but then they usually still want to kill a bunch of people now which I also sorta kinda have a problem with. Murder is wrong even if you dehumanize your enemy sufficiently and feel justified, self defense is one thing but that easily gets twisted from reality to fit their revenge fantasies, and I’m really just not about it.