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2 months agoDamn 42 was the one I didn’t know, I forgot about the hitchhikers guide to the galaxy
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Joined 1 year ago
Cake day: August 9th, 2023
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Vegans have been refining these arguments for a decade now and can present clear sharp moral stances with a counter to everything you have to say
Lol they fuck they can, they couldn’t even properly present and defend their own sources.
Which is exactly why pet owners shouldn’t be fucking with it, maybe down the road but as it stands right now the average pet owner shouldn’t be experimenting on their poor kitties.
Hey that’s a really good point lets see what scientific literature says about that:
4.1. Evidence Considerations-To date, only sixteen studies have looked at actual health-related outcomes in dogs and cats fed vegan diets, as opposed to performing nutrient evaluations of diets. However, the majority of these studies utilized small sample sizes (ranging from 2–34 animals) for the direct investigation of outcomes. Whilst survey studies evaluating guardian-reported outcomes generally encompassed larger numbers of animals, these are subject to inherent biases due to participant selection, as well as the reliability of lay people making judgements around somewhat subjective concepts, such as health and body condition.
It then goes on to say:
The risk of bias assessment performed on the experimental trials suggests, at best, an unclear risk of bias across the studies. There were some particular aspects of poor performance (or reporting), especially around randomization and blinding. This has been reported previously in animal studies [42], where researchers have probably not taken on board some of these important facets of experimental design and reporting to the extent that human clinical researchers have [43,44]. This remains a major concern impeding reproducibility, and where internal validity of the study is impacted, also leads to wastage of animal and financial resources [42].
Seems like the science backs your claim up partially. I would call it bias instead of lying though.
Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9860667/
See my above comment that directly pulls quotes directly from peer reviewed primary scientific literature.
Yes I can because I actually read the peer reviewed primary source please see my above comment.
I don’t understand why people upvote summaries that don’t even try to be objective.
I don’t understand how you guys are ignoring your own sources, please see my above comment.
Did you actually read the article? Cause I did and here are some highlights from the article regarding felines specifically:
Sample sizes are tiny
3.2. Feline Studies-Meta-analysis was considered if more than one study presented the same outcome data. However, meta-analyses of these data were not possible due to (1) differences or lack of a comparison group, e.g., a meat-based diet comparator or (2) no presentation of a measure of central tendency or dispersion to input into the model.
Hypokalemia is: a low level of potassium (K+) in the blood serum.[1] Mild low potassium does not typically cause symptoms.[3] Symptoms may include feeling tired, leg cramps, weakness, and constipation.[1] Low potassium also increases the risk of an abnormal heart rhythm, which is often too slow and can cause cardiac arrest
3.2.1. Hematology/Biochemistry-Only three studies [27,29,30] have carried out hematological and/or biochemical analysis of blood in cats that were fed vegetarian diets, and it is worth noting that sample sizes were low. Cats on a high-protein vegetarian diet exhibited hypokalemia which accompanied recurrent polymyopathy [29]. There was also increased creatinine kinase activity, likely reflecting the muscle damage caused by the myopathy, and reduced urinary potassium concentrations.
Myopathy is: a disease of the muscle[1] in which the muscle fibers do not function properly.
3.2.3. Clinical Findings-In cats fed vegetarian diets that were supplemented with potassium, a myopathy was seen within 2 weeks of the dietary change [29]. This was characterized by ventroflexion of the head and the neck. The cats also showed lateral head resting, a stiff gait, muscular weakness, unsteadiness, and the occasional tremor of the head and pinnae… Weight loss and poor coat condition have also been observed in cats fed vegetarian diets [29,30]. However, most cats in another study had a normal coat condition and no obviously diet-related clinical abnormalities picked up by clinical examination [27]. Clinical signs of lethargy with altered mentation, dysorexia, and muscle wasting, along with gut signs of bloating and increased borborygmi have also been observed [30].
These are guardian based reports which means there is significant bias from the owner to report positive effects and look over the negatives
3.2.4. Guardian-Reported Health Effects-Guardians generally believed that the transition to a meat-free diet had been positive. These studies are valuable, as large sample sizes of respondents (animals) are generally employed. Some guardians did notice an increase in stool volume but noted no issues with consistency [27]. When considering other aspects, coat condition was shinier [27], there was an improved scent of their animals (particularly relating to breath odor) [27], there was a tendency to be at the ideal body condition score rather than being obese [28,31].
This is about as close as you can get to justifying it , IF you fixate on ONE aspect and ignore everything else in the journal article:
Dodd et al. (2021) [31] collected dietary information for 1026 cats, of whom 187 were fed vegan diets. The latter were more frequently reported by guardians to be in very good health. They had more ideal body condition scores and were less likely to suffer from gastrointestinal and hepatic disorders than cats that were fed meat. No health disorders were found to be more likely in cats that were fed vegan diets. The reported differences were statistically significant.
So please explain to me how myopathy setting in and causing tremors after only two weeks of transitioning to a non meat based diet is good for cats?
So for the record you are dead flat wrong by your own damn source because you didn’t read it or you ignored all the bad parts.
reproduction studies
What the hell are you talking about, what is a reproduction study?
You either mean a reproducible study or a study specifically on something reproducing which is irrelevant. Again you don’t even know what you are talking about and 3 from college, I work in industry now so I don’t publish. We also directly collaborate with a large university and a national laboratory, so I know a thing or two about how grant funding is acquired from both an academic and industrial side(industries such as mine actually fund studies that do get publicly published). There are absolutely issues with politics in academia, it just isn’t what you are describing.
As someone who’s been a STEM researcher for about a decade, this person has no clue what they are talking about
Criticize the hell out of them man, I do it on a daily basis as well. Just know you ain’t doing shit but yapping unless you bring some plans to the table.
Oh yeah these people don’t ever ever ever give actual solutions on how to achieve any goals. They just constantly criticize and then act like the victim when you call out how absurdly outside reality they are.
I personally disagree, mainly because the interactions have much more depth than the same 30 unfunny comments that people make on reddit ex: this. Don’t get me wrong it happens here as well, just way less. I also see people back claims up with evidence here way more, it’s not always valid evidence but at least an attempt is made more.
The thing I like the best is the lack of self righteousness (ironic I’m making this comment on this post haha) that reddit has, that was my personal biggest complaint there. Like on reddit if there is an animal in a video in any way shape or form you can almost always find someone screeching about animal abuse, even when it is obviously not.
I of course have bias in favor of Lemmy and this is highly dependent on the community. I will admit Lemmy is super left leaning, which I like, but definitely supports your hive mind argument. Even though I lean left I think it would be healthier for Lemmy to have more of a presence from the right. Unfortunately with how the political landscape is today I think it won’t be very achievable but hopefully when we hit the post Trump era divisiveness will ease making coexistence here more achievable.
How have we not started moving towards it when every company is trying their damnedest to get subscriptions? Look at new vehicles, they are paywalling features on an already purchased car, I bet you would have “bet against this” too before it happened. The problem is companies are slowly changing things over time hoping consumers don’t notice until it’s too late.
I can’t read German but I definitely believe it was translated. I completely missed the 42 being a reference to hitchhikers guide to the galaxy, I was hoping y’all came up with a new funny number haha.