Truly all cum posters are living in Violet’s shadow

Gil already thought about this is and is just commenting for attention

Yeah you seem like a great science communicator

If you are so concerned about confusion, you should refrain from ever explaining or offering advice to anyone moving forward

extra weight

Correct, this part is where you were wrong, as you have now agreed in writing.

Why would anyone get hurt by that?

You are actively encouraging people to develop osteoporosis and sarcopenia. Secondarily, you are steering them away from the massive list of other proven benefits of training, such as reduced injury risk and improved mental health.

It’s literally as insane as telling people to avoid drinking water because drinking alcohol is bad for you, and those are both things you drink. And then posting a random study about the health outcomes of alcoholics and literally lying through your teeth as you say the study is about drinking in general, whether it be water or alcohol.

It’s shockingly disingenuous and unethical

I don’t know why you’re still talking about it but yes. Exclusive bicep focus is not a good strategy for improving your health. Nobody ever said otherwise, not even the meme (the subject has a fully developed upper body, and the angle even shows off the whole back). Just let it go

It’s also literally irrelevant. The reason you pissed off 100% of the community is not because you dislike bicep training, but because you posted dangerous medical misinformation, which is still in fact in your original post. You have now agreed that you were wrong about that. You should edit your post to correct your mistake

Okay, great. Yes overt illegal drug abuse is extremely harmful. You also happen to be talking to someone who dislikes the scummy supplement industry in general. I go as far as steering people away from creatine and protein supplements. I agree, the whole association between drugs/supplements and broader gym culture is extremely problematic

The final thing is the difference between resistance training and cardio. They are not positioned against one another whatsoever, in fact as you become stronger you need a higher base of cardio to continue to progress.

So in conclusion:

Cardio: good

Resistance training as defined by the linked wikipedia article: good

Muscle hypertrophy resulting from resistance training: good

Drug abuse: bad

Excessive mass gain possible only via drug abuse: bad

Doing nothing but bicep curls: bad

Does this all feel aboveboard?

Well, in context, the other dude who you began your comment by supporting had been in the thread arguing that people shouldn’t lift weights at all. And then I felt your initial simplified phrasing of what you were saying kind of rolled into that. But I’m glad we were able to progress the discussion amicably

Okay I’m looking at the meme, please hold.

…

Excellent, yes it is exactly how I remembered it.

But why are you talking to me incessantly about exclusive bicep focus when literally the first thing I said to you was to go ahead and skip direct bicep training because it doesn’t matter?

Of course, if you exercise, you will gain size

Right on, yeah I think we’re pretty much on the same page now.

I apologize for coming in hot. My main issue really is just with the popular myth that the ratio you’re referring to is very extreme and necessitates totally different styles of training. It’s often used to mislead women in particular, who are baited into purchasing expensive yet ineffective programs that “won’t make them bulky”. But as we continue speaking I can see that you’re not advocating for that

Who is this biceps only person you are obsessed with?

Yes as I said, my apologies for the lack of citation. But the book is far from forbidden, it’s a standard academic work written by leading exercise science researchers. Their work is universally cited, which is why I encourage you to look towards academic sources rather than advertisements

I also think there was a miscommunication here. I’m not saying that hypertrophy doesn’t result in strength gains

To be clear, what you said was:

you can get very puffed up muscle that isn’t super strong

Which is a debunked myth. So you’re walking that back now which is good.

People can definitely add significant strength without significant size, up to a point, for individualized training blocks. But if you train, even only for strength, your muscles will get larger. In your lived experience, do you have any example of someone who brought their strict press from 35lbs to 185lbs without increasing the size of their shoulders? Have you seen someone with small legs squat 455?

Muscle building is a primary effect of resistance training. Bolded that for you above.

You are not being misinterpreted. You are wrong.

if you just Google “is there such a thing as dense muscle”, there’s many articles explaining the phenomenon.

Like I said, it gets repeated a lot. Googling “is myth real” and ending up with one of thousands of similar fluff blogposts from over the years that say “yes! Myth is real! Check out our exclusive training program to better deal with myth!” Is totally expected. It’s all just fluff designed to sell programs based on that “key piece of information you’re missing”

We’re not talking about the very top 1% best people though

These are the people who bring what you’re saying to the utmost extreme, and their strength is ultimately similar. It’s relevant. The differences in strength are even smaller the younger your training age is.

If you go to a real gym or actually meet people, you’ll see there’s a huge variety of builds and results.

I go to several gyms. I’m at a gym every day. I am a trainer. Aside from my own clients, I also see all the regulars, how they train, and how their bodies change

Additionally, I am literally holding the textbook from my certification program in my hand right at this moment, which actually has a small section addressing this exact myth directly. It begins with, “contrary to what many believe…”

I apologize for not providing this textbook as a citation. I reference it a lot in public facing posts associated with my business and I feel that, in context, doing so now has the potential to be identifying. I prefer to keep a resolute line between my professional service and my posts here on lemmy, so that I cannot be accused of self enrichment via advertising.

Thus, everything I say on the topic comes simply from the hope that it may help people better themselves in one small way or another. In this case, it’s very common for people to avoid effective training methods that would work very well for them because they were mislead by someone making a huge fuss between “strength” and “size” and insisting they must train a certain way to heavily bias one or the other. The academic consensus is that you really don’t need to worry about that at all

Hi, sorry I was just scrolling by to see how the whole thread turned out

I apologize to be so blunt, but there simply isn’t truth to what you’re saying. It gets repeated a lot, but it’s a totally debunked myth, this idea that there’s “functional muscles” vs “show muscles” that aren’t really strong

There is some nuance to it, in that the expression of strength has a large skill and neurological factor. Like in a typical training block, someone only training for size simply wouldn’t be practicing doubles and singles, so they wouldn’t be at their best on a random day if you tested them on something they weren’t practicing

But the best bodybuilders (who train maximally for visuals) end up within like 5% of the strength of the best powerlifters (who train maximally for efficiency). There are plenty of people who compete in both and do decent in both. In fact, powerlifters do hypertrophy blocks as well, and switch to mainly practicing heavy lifts only as competition gets closer

A commercial gym is not necessary!

So “general activity” I can only assume is stuff like going on walks and hikes, playing sports, enjoying the outdoors, and so on. This will generally fall under the umbrella of cardiovascular exercise which is extremely good, and you should do

Resistance training is typically performed in much shorter bouts of intense activity. It’s very convenient in a gym, but you can do pretty much everything you need with the right setup (bench press is very similar to pushups, for example, which don’t require equipment.)

The biggest challenge outside of a gym is how to progress movements. For example, once you can do 50 pushups, how could you make it harder so that the movement would be appropriately challenging, and not take all day? And then another issue sometimes can be training the muscles of the back without equipment, typically done via pull-ups and rows.

But ultimately everything is doable! Check out the youtube channel “Hybrid Calisthenics”, he’s got a ton of excellent content aimed directly at this question. He also sells cheap gymnastics rings which handily solve the muscles-of-the-back problem, if you have somewhere to hang them from (even a tree!)

I see, so in the end, you have decided to persist in falsehood. I hope you know that through humility, it is still possible for you to be redeemed from this shame.

Beyond that, the actual content in your latest comment here is ludicrous beyond credulity. You continue to literally lie about the contents of the study. You assert imagined facts about bodybuilding as a whole that nobody else ascribes to. You propose a ridiculous false dichotomy between aerobic and anaerobic exercise.

It is my hope that everyone will be able to easily see through what you are doing. Here is some accessible educational material for those who may possibly be confused by your continued repetition of dangerous and misleading information:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strength_training

Some highlights, emphasis mine:

Strength training, also known as weight training or resistance training, is exercise designed to improve physical strength. It may involve lifting weights, bodyweight exercises (such as push-ups, pull-ups, and squats), isometrics (holding a position under tension, such as planks), and plyometrics (explosive movements like jump squats and box jumps).

The effects of strength training include greater muscular strength, improved muscle tone and appearance, increased endurance, cardiovascular health, and enhanced bone density. These benefits contribute not only to athletic performance but also to long-term health and independence, especially as individuals age.

Regular resistance training supports metabolic function, helps regulate body weight, and can improve mental well-being through the release of endorphins.

Strength training also provides functional benefits. Stronger muscles improve posture, provide better support for joints, and reduce the risk of injury from everyday activities.

Engaging in strength training has been linked to a 10-17% reduction in the risk of death from all causes, cardiovascular disease, cancer, diabetes, and lung cancer. Two of its primary effects-muscle growth (hypertrophy) and increased muscular strength-are both associated with improved longevity and lower mortality rates.

Perhaps once you understand why you are wrong, and you realize how much your error has the potential to harm people, you will apologize.

This study is definitionally unrelated to any form of resistance training, or the additional total body mass that you can acquire via resistance training.

It is an observational study on the outcomes of IFBB contestants. For anyone who doesn’t know, the IFBB is the primary bodybuilding federation for drug abusers. They run the “Mr. Olympia” contest which you may have heard of.

The drug abuse they glorify directly results in many extreme health issues including sudden cardiac death, in exchange for levels of muscle gain that far exceed what is possible for any natural athlete.

I want to be clear. What they are doing is extreme, illegal, dangerous, and critically, not related to resistance training in any meaningful way. The body will not allow you to become so muscular that it harms you, which is why these extreme athletes need illegal drugs to become so large in the first place.

It is shockingly irresponsible and ethically wrong for you to withhold this necessary context, and to so severely contort this paper into your unrelated false conclusion

It should go without saying that illegal drug abuse causes countless extreme health issues

You may be surprised to learn that non-drug abusing bodybuilders usually max out around the 150-170lb mark on stage. There are very hard limits to how much muscle your body will let you build

Honestly I would say consistency is somewhat overrated in the grand scheme of things

ALERT. ALERT. OVERRATED DOES NOT MEAN BAD

Consistency is obviously extremely good. I used to preach it. But honestly, I took on a client with severe intermittent health issues which results in them having about 50% adherence (meaning they miss, on average, about half their training sessions)

And they ended up progressing just fine lol

Actually I feel like a far bigger risk is for people to assume they need to have perfect consistency, then drop training altogether when they aren’t able to meet that high standard.

The critical thing to understand is that resistance training is EXTREMELY potent for beginners. Even inconsistent effort will do pretty amazing things for your health