you liberals are such fuckig morons, its unbelievable.
i suppose, according to you the slaves of haiti should have simply forgiven the slavers, since they were “playing by the rules”. this institutionality fetish of yours is the same excuse fascists use to justify their crimes. “the untermenschen werent playing by the rules.”
please read theory. especially engels, lenin and mao.
I do read theory. I just know theory isnt the be all end all of understanding the world. If it was, that would be great, but you just happen to agree with this guys philosophical musings. Besides that, you call me a liberal when I’m literally not but whatever.
You’re arguing with an imaginary friend and a beautiful strawman opinion you made for him to hold.
I never said anything about Haiti, but comparing anybody living in a first world country (the vast majority of this site’s users and where such a revolution is more likely to take place) to a slave is disingenuous at absolute best.
I also don’t think that Dessalines needed to massacre the remaining french people on the island. I’m willing to bet I have a better und3rstanding of the haitian revolution than you. You know they reinstated slavery within a couple of years, right? Read some Trouillot.
Isn’t the context about the overthrow of the Russian Empire by communist revolutionaries? Not modern first-worlders? Am I missing something here? Why would “foreign imperialists” be relevant to modern first-worlders?
That being said, to actually answer your line of questioning, it is the correct solution to change society while ALSO overthrowing and locking up the oppressors. That may involve the elite dying, but those deaths are necessary. Peaceful reformism and strict nonviolence policies never works – unless you consider extremely high amounts of unnecessary suffering for innocents to achieve comparatively minor goals as “success” (cough cough Nelson Mandela). Even Gandhi and MLK (who took most of his influence from Gandhi), although nonviolence advocates, were well aware that violence is often necessary to achieve a better future, and much of the work they did was to the benefit of violent/militant revolutionaries (although of course they’re portrayed a lot more neutered/“deradicalized”, as well as the roles of complete compliance to nonviolence being completely overstated while violent methods are hidden away as if they didn’t exist, not even to be mentioned).
After capture though, death pentalty is not the way to go, but life imprisonment is fine and they may have a chance to be released later, mostly depending on their status/loyalty. I’m sure a lot of “revolutionaries” would disagree with me though, but I’m not an “eye for an eye” believer… I suppose if you’re in a situation where the former imperialist rulers would likely have power to directly cause damage while detained or incarcerated, or they’re likely to escape or be “rescued”, then it would be justified to chop off their heads or put a bullet in their cranium.
The core issue is that these people (the oppressors/ruling class) can not be rehabilitated, and are likely to stir up considerable trouble and disrupt when they have the opportunity, either in a bid to regain their power, or out of a large feeling of loss that makes them go nuts. You can’t always reasonably ensure that they won’t try to fuck shit up in the future.
That’s just my view, but of course there are people other than me who are just bloodthirsty for vengeance (my opinion is that they’re not thinking all too rationally and it’s the same mindset as parents that hit/yell at their kids, they’re convincing themselves it’s for the greater good but in reality it’s just attempting to satisfy their feelings of anger). Either way, I see their lives as considerably less valuable than the lives of the people they oppressed, not because they have an inherently evil soul or something, but because they are already too far gone and only can bring chaos to the world.
Just for a classless society, you fool, you absolute baffoon.
🤡
We live in bourgeois “democracies,” which were formed from bourgeois revolutions. These states weren’t created to represent us, and they never have and never will. The rules of the system can’t be reformed into socialism, because the bourgeoisie will never allow it. They would sooner unleash fascism on us (again in the case of Europe) than relinquish ownership of the means of production.
Ah, yes, all societies and situations are homogeneous I forgot.
Besides that, people deserve to die for playing by the rules of the system in which we live? Why not change the rules to prevent abuse?
Clown
you liberals are such fuckig morons, its unbelievable.
i suppose, according to you the slaves of haiti should have simply forgiven the slavers, since they were “playing by the rules”. this institutionality fetish of yours is the same excuse fascists use to justify their crimes. “the untermenschen werent playing by the rules.”
please read theory. especially engels, lenin and mao.
I do read theory. I just know theory isnt the be all end all of understanding the world. If it was, that would be great, but you just happen to agree with this guys philosophical musings. Besides that, you call me a liberal when I’m literally not but whatever.
You’re arguing with an imaginary friend and a beautiful strawman opinion you made for him to hold.
I never said anything about Haiti, but comparing anybody living in a first world country (the vast majority of this site’s users and where such a revolution is more likely to take place) to a slave is disingenuous at absolute best.
I also don’t think that Dessalines needed to massacre the remaining french people on the island. I’m willing to bet I have a better und3rstanding of the haitian revolution than you. You know they reinstated slavery within a couple of years, right? Read some Trouillot.
🤡
France has assassinated 22 African presidents since 1963.
That literally has nothing to do with what Im talking about, which you should really know given your username. I’m done here.
Isn’t the context about the overthrow of the Russian Empire by communist revolutionaries? Not modern first-worlders? Am I missing something here? Why would “foreign imperialists” be relevant to modern first-worlders?
That being said, to actually answer your line of questioning, it is the correct solution to change society while ALSO overthrowing and locking up the oppressors. That may involve the elite dying, but those deaths are necessary. Peaceful reformism and strict nonviolence policies never works – unless you consider extremely high amounts of unnecessary suffering for innocents to achieve comparatively minor goals as “success” (cough cough Nelson Mandela). Even Gandhi and MLK (who took most of his influence from Gandhi), although nonviolence advocates, were well aware that violence is often necessary to achieve a better future, and much of the work they did was to the benefit of violent/militant revolutionaries (although of course they’re portrayed a lot more neutered/“deradicalized”, as well as the roles of complete compliance to nonviolence being completely overstated while violent methods are hidden away as if they didn’t exist, not even to be mentioned).
After capture though, death pentalty is not the way to go, but life imprisonment is fine and they may have a chance to be released later, mostly depending on their status/loyalty. I’m sure a lot of “revolutionaries” would disagree with me though, but I’m not an “eye for an eye” believer… I suppose if you’re in a situation where the former imperialist rulers would likely have power to directly cause damage while detained or incarcerated, or they’re likely to escape or be “rescued”, then it would be justified to chop off their heads or put a bullet in their cranium.
The core issue is that these people (the oppressors/ruling class) can not be rehabilitated, and are likely to stir up considerable trouble and disrupt when they have the opportunity, either in a bid to regain their power, or out of a large feeling of loss that makes them go nuts. You can’t always reasonably ensure that they won’t try to fuck shit up in the future.
That’s just my view, but of course there are people other than me who are just bloodthirsty for vengeance (my opinion is that they’re not thinking all too rationally and it’s the same mindset as parents that hit/yell at their kids, they’re convincing themselves it’s for the greater good but in reality it’s just attempting to satisfy their feelings of anger). Either way, I see their lives as considerably less valuable than the lives of the people they oppressed, not because they have an inherently evil soul or something, but because they are already too far gone and only can bring chaos to the world.
Just
for a classless society, you fool, you absolute baffoon.
🤡
We live in bourgeois “democracies,” which were formed from bourgeois revolutions. These states weren’t created to represent us, and they never have and never will. The rules of the system can’t be reformed into socialism, because the bourgeoisie will never allow it. They would sooner unleash fascism on us (again in the case of Europe) than relinquish ownership of the means of production.
Rosa Luxemburg, 1900: Reform or Revolution